by Daniel Gill, Queen Mary University of London

In Part 1, we spoke to Stephen Parry about his experiences of working in computer science as an autistic person. In this second part, we discuss with him his change from this stressful working environment to teaching A-Level computer science, and how rewarding he has found teaching as a career.

Following a tough experience at his last workplace, Stephen decided he needed a change. He used this as a prompt to start thinking about alternatives:

“[When] things aren’t working out, you need to take a step back and work out what the problem is before it becomes really serious. I still hadn’t had a diagnosis by that point, so things probably would have gone very differently if I had, but I took a step back after that job. I was fed up of being stressed, trying to help people [who] have already got far too much money make more money, and then being told that I was being paid too much. That was kind of my experience from my last employer. And so, I decided that I wanted to get stressed for something worthwhile instead: my mum had been a teacher, so I’d always had it in mind as a possibility.”

Stephen did, of course, have some reservations financially. 

“I’d always thought it was financially too much of a step down, which a lot of people in the computer science industry will find out. I did take pretty much a 50% pay cut to become a trainee teacher: in fact, worse than that. But it’s amazing when you want to do something, what differences that makes! And there’s plenty of people out there that will sacrifice a salary to start their own business, and all the power to them. But people don’t think [like this] when they’re thinking about becoming a teacher, for example, which I think is wrong. Yes, teachers should be better paid than they are, but they’re never going to be as well paid as programmers or team leaders or whatever in industry. You shouldn’t expect that to be the case, because we’re public servants at the end of the day, and we’re here for the job as much as we are for the money. We want our roof over our head, but we’re not looking to get mega rich. We’re there to make a difference.”

While considering this change of profession, Stephen reflected on his existing skills, and whether they fit the role of teaching. With support from his wife and a DWP (Department for Work and Pensions) work coach, he was reminded of his ability to “explain technical stuff to [people] in a language [they] could understand.”

Stephen had the opportunity to get his first experience of teaching as a classroom volunteer. Alongside a qualified teacher, he was able to lead a lesson – which he found particularly exciting:

“It was a bit like being on drugs. It was exhilarating. I sort of sat there thinking, you know, this is something I really want to do.”

It’s around this time that Stephen got his autism diagnosis. For autistic people who receive a diagnosis, there can be a lot of mixed emotions. For some, it can be a huge sense of relief – finally understanding who they are, and how that has affected their actions and behaviours throughout their life. And for others it can come as a shock [EXTERNAL]. For Stephen, this news meant reconsidering his choice of a career in teaching:

“I had to stop and think, because, when you get your diagnosis for the first time as an adult or as an older person anyway, it does make you stop and think about who you are. It does somewhat challenge your sense of self.”

“It kind of turns your world a bit on its head. So, it did knock me a fair bit. It did knock my sense of self. But then I began to sort of put pieces together and realise just what an impact it had on my working life up until that point. And then the question came across, can I still do the job? Am I going to be able to teach? Is it really an appropriate course of action to take? I didn’t get the answer straight away, but certainly over the months and the years, I came to the conclusion it was a bit like when I talk to students who say, ‘should I do computer science?’ And I say to them, ‘well, can you program?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Yes, you do need to do computer science.’ It’s not just you can if you want to – it’s a ‘you should do CS.’ It’s the same thing if you’re on the spectrum, or you’re in another minority, a significant minority like that, where you’re able to engage with a teaching role: you should do.”

Stephen did go on to complete teacher training, and has now worked as an A-Level and GCSE teacher for 15 years. He still benefits from his time in work, however, as he is able to enlighten future computer science students about the workplace:

“Well, you know the experiences I’ve had as a person in industry, where else are the students going to be exposed to that second-hand? Hopefully they’ll be exposed to it first-hand, but, if I can give them a leg up, and an introduction to that, being forewarned and forearmed and all that, then that’s what should happen. 

“I do spend a chunk of my teaching explaining what it’s like working in industry: explaining the difficulties of dealing with management; (1) when you think you know better, you might not know better – you don’t know yet; (2) if you do, keep your mouth shut until the problem occurs, then offer a positive and constructive solution. Hopefully they won’t say ‘why didn’t you say something sooner?’ If they do, just say, ‘Well, I wasn’t sure it was my place to, I’m only new.’”

Teaching is famously a very rewarding career path, and this is no different for Stephen. In our discussion, he outlined a few things that he enjoyed about teaching:

“It’s [a] situation where what you do, lives on. If I drop dead tomorrow, all that stuff that I learned about; how different procedure calls work or whatever, could potentially just disappear into the ether. But because I’ve shared it with all my students, they will hopefully make use of it, and it will carry on. And it’s a way of having a legacy, which I think we all want, to a certain extent.”

“Young people nowadays, particularly those of us on the spectrum, but it applies to all, the world does everything possible at the moment to destroy most young people’s self-esteem. Really, really knock people flat. Society is set up that way. Our social media is set up that way. Our traditional media is set up that way. It’s all about making people feel pretty useless, pretty rubbish in the hope, in some cases, of selling them something that will make them feel better, which never does, or in other cases, just make someone else feel good by making someone else feel small. It’s kind of the more the darker side of humanity coming out that teaching is an opportunity to counter that. If you can make a young person feel good about themselves; if you can help them conquer something that they’re not able to do; if you could help them realise that it doesn’t matter if they can’t, they’re still just as important and wonderful and valuable as a human being.”

“The extracurricular activities that I do: ‘Exploring the Christian faith’ here at college. And part of that is helping people [to] find a spiritual worth they didn’t realise they had. So, you get that opportunity as a teacher, which a bus driver doesn’t get, for example. Bus drivers are very useful – they do a wonderful job. But once they’ve dropped you off, that’s the end of the job. Sometimes we’re a bit like bus drivers as teachers. You go out the door with your grades, and that’s fine, but then some people keep coming back. I haven’t spotted the existential elastic yet, but it’s there somewhere. I’m sure I didn’t attach it. But that is another one of the things that motivates me to be a teacher.”

Stephen Parry now teaches at a sixth-form college near Sheffield. The author would like to thank Stephen for taking time out of his busy schedule to take part in this interview.

More on …

• Working in Computer Science: An Autistic Perspective (Part 1)
• Diversity in Computer Science
• Neurodiversity and what it takes to be a good programmer
• NHS Guidance for Newly Diagnosed Autistic People [EXTERNAL]

Magazines …

• Issue 29 – Diversity

EPSRC supports this blog through research grant EP/W033615/1,

by Daniel Gill, Queen Mary University of London

Autism is a condition with many associated challenges, but for some people it presents some benefits. This distinction is greatly apparent in the workplace, where autistic people often find it difficult to get along with others (and their boss), and to complete the work that has been set for them. It’s not all negatives though: many autistic people find the work in which they thrive, and given the right circumstances and support, an autistic person is able to succeed in such an environment.

We often rightly hear about the greats in computer science; Ada Lovelace, Alan Turing, Lynn Conway (who sadly passed away earlier this month) – but let us not forget the incredible teams of computer scientists working around the clock; maintaining the Internet, building the software we use every day, and teaching the next generation. For this two-part article, I have spoken with Stephen Parry, an autistic computer scientist, who, after working in industry for 20 years, now teaches the subject in a sixth-form college in Sheffield. His autistic traits have caused him challenges throughout his career, but this is not a unique experience – many autistic computer scientists also face the same challenges.

Stephen’s experience with programming started at the age of 14, after being introduced to computers at a curriculum enrichment course. He decided against taking a then “really rubbish” O-Level (now GCSEs) Computer Science course, and the existence of the accompanying A-Level “just didn’t come up on my radar”. He was, however, able to take home the college’s sole RML 380Z for the summer, a powerful computer for the time, with which, he was able to continue to practice programming.

When it came time to go to university, he opted first to study chemistry, a subject he had been studying at A-Level. Though after a short amount of time he realised that he wasn’t as interested in chemistry as he first thought – so he decided to switch to computer science. In our discussions, he praised the computer science course at the University of Sheffield:

“[I] really enjoyed [the course] and got on well with it. So, I kind of drifted into it as far as doing it seriously is concerned. But it’s been a hobby of mine since I was 14 years old, and once I was on the degree, I mean, the degree at Sheffield was a bit like a sweetie shop. It really was absolutely brilliant. We did all kinds of weird and wonderful stuff, all of it [was] really interesting and engaging, and the kind of stuff that you wouldn’t get by either playing around on your own or going out into [the] workplace. As I’ve always said, that’s what a university should be. It should expose you to the kind of stuff that you can’t get anywhere else, the stuff that employers haven’t realised they need yet.”

Of autistic people who go to university, research shows they are much more likely the general population to pick STEM subjects [EXTERNAL]. For lots of autistic people, the clear logical and fundamental understanding behind scientific subjects is a great motivator. Stephen describes how this is something that appeals to him.

“[What] I enjoy about computer science is how it teaches you how the computer actually works at a fundamental level. So, you’re not just playing with a black box anymore – it’s something you understand. And especially for someone on the [autism] spectrum, that’s a really important aspect of anything you do. You want to understand how things work. If you’re working with something, and you don’t understand how it works, usually it’s not very satisfying and kind of frustrating. Whereas, if you understand the principles going on inside of it then, when you know you’ve got it, it kind of unlocks it for you.”

While autistic traits often result in challenges for autistic people, there are some which can present a benefit to someone in computer science. A previous CS4FN article described how positive traits like ‘attention to detail’ and ‘resilience and determination’ link well to programming. Stephen agrees that these traits can help him to solve problems:

“If I get focused on a problem, the hyper focus kicks in, and I will just keep plugging away until it’s done, fixed or otherwise overcome. I know it’s both a benefit and hazard – it’s a double edged sword, but at the same time, you know you have to have that attention to detail and that, to put it another way, sheer bloody mindedness to be determined that you’re going to make it work, or you’re going to understand how it works, and that does come definitely from the [autism] spectrum.”

Although he enjoyed the content greatly, Stephen had a rocky degree, both in and out of lectures. However, some unexpected benefits arose from being at university; he both found faith and met his future wife. These became essential pillars of support, as he prepared to enter the workforce. This he did, working both as a programmer and in a variety of IT admin and technical support roles. 

About 78% of autistic adults are currently out of work [EXTERNAL] (compared with 20% in the general population). This is, in part, reflective of the fact that some autistic people are unable to work because of their condition. But for many others, despite wanting to work, they cannot because they do not get the support they need (and are legally entitled to) within their workplace.

At this time, however, Stephen wasn’t aware of his condition, only receiving his diagnosis in his 40s. He described how this transition from university to work was very challenging.

“I moved into my first job, and I found it very, very difficult because I didn’t know that I’ve got this sort of difference – this different way my brain works that affects everything that you do. I didn’t know when I came across difficulties, it was difficult to understand why, at least to an extent, for me and for other people, it was deeply frustrating. I mean, speak to just about every manager I’ve ever had, and the same sort of pattern tends to come out. Most of them recognised that I was very difficult to manage because I found myself very difficult to manage. But time management is an issue with everything – trying to complete tasks to any kind of schedule, trying to plan anything. Oh, my days, when I hear the word SMART. [It’s an] acronym [meaning] specific, measurable, achievable, realistic and time specific. I hear that, and it just it makes me feel physically ill sometimes, because I cannot. I cannot SMART plan.”

However, during his time in work, he had some good luck. Despite the challenges associated with autism, some managers took advantage of the positive skills that he brings to the table:

“I found that a real challenge, interpersonally speaking, things like emotional regulation and stuff like that, which I struggle with, and I hate communicating on the phone and various other things, make me not the most promising employee. But the managers that I’ve had over the years that have valued me the most are the ones who recognised the other side of the coin, which is [that] over the years, I have absorbed so much knowledge about computer science and there are very [few] problems that you can come across that I don’t have some kind of insight into.”

This confidence in a range of areas in computer science is also a result of Stephen’s ability to link lots of areas and experiences together, a positive skill that some autistic people have:

“I found that with the mixture of different job roles I did, i.e. programming, support, network admin and database admin, my autism helped me form synergies between the different roles, allowing me to form links and crossover knowledge between the different areas. So, for example, as a support person with programming experience, I had insight into why the software I was helping the user with did not work as desired (e.g. the shortcuts or mistakes the programmer had likely made) and how maybe to persuade it to work. As a programmer with support experience, you had empathy with the user and what might give them a better UX, as well as how they might abuse the software. All this crossover, also set me up for being able to teach confidently on a huge range of aspects of CS.”

For autistic students who are planning on working in a computer science career, he has this to say:

“As an autistic person, and I would say this to anybody with [autism], you need to cultivate the part of you that really wants to get on well with people and wants to be able to care about people and understand people. Neurotypical people get that ability out of the box, and some of them take it for granted. I tend to find that the autistic people who actually find that they can understand people, that they work at it until they can, [are] often more conscientious as a result. And I think it’s important that if you’re an autistic person, to learn how to be positive about people and affirm people, and interact with them in positive ways, because it can make you a more caring and more valuable human being as a as a result.”

“Look for jobs where you can really be an asset, where your neurodiversity is the asset to what you’re trying to do, but at the same time, don’t be afraid to try to, and learn how to engage with people. Although it’s harder, it’s often more rewarding as a result.”

After working in industry for 20 years, the last half as which as a contractor, Stephen decided to take a considerable pay drop and become a computer science teacher. In the second part of this article, we will continue our conversation and find out what led him to choose a career change to teaching. 

More on …

• Working in Computer Science: An Autistic Perspective (Part 2)
• Diversity in Computer Science
• Neurodiversity and what it takes to be a good programmer
• Research on how people with autism gravitate to STEM subjects [EXTERNAL]
• The autism employment gap [EXTERNAL]

Magazines …

• Issue 29 – Diversity

EPSRC supports this blog through research grant EP/W033615/1,